Recently, like a lot of geeky type folks, I was warily taking part in the Windows 7 beta. I cleared a 30 GB partition for this on my primary System hard Drive and happily dual booted for a while. After a good while evaluating it, and deciding that I really liked what I was seeing, I decided to get rid of the Beta and see what other mischief I could get into.
This was about about 8:30 Tuesday Evening and I was presented two basic options at this point:
1. I could resize my Vista partition back to the full drive and find some other way to amuse myself or
2. I could try out a Linux OS.
Not realizing the horrors that await, I decided to see what all the kids were talking about and try out Linux. I went and check out the various versions at distros (which is hip Linux slang for “Distributions” which the rest of the world calls “Versions,”) at DistroWatch and downloaded the latest stable Ubuntu and began.
Let me begin my horror story-critique by telling you all that I began my computing life back on DOS and earlier command based systems. I understand these systems decently well, even though it’s been a while since I’ve used them, and this brings me to my first and largest complaint about Linux in ALL of its distros …
It’s not 1995. Leave the command line for emergencies. I should not have to use a command line terminal to do the most basic of tasks, like driver installation. I update my drivers all the time and like to make sure I’m always using the latest stable drivers I can get my hands on. It seems like every aspect of using and installing Linux needs command line access through a terminal interface. And the commands can’t just be through my regular user, but through the uber-powerful ”Root” user. This adds an extra string to the command or requires that I open terminals or system functions through a different manner than just fucking clicking on them.
It’s 2009, people. I should be able to accomplish the vast, overwhelming majority of system functions with some clicks and a few scattered keystrokes. The only typing I should have to enter are user names and passwords. Until Linux leaves its Unix, command-driven roots behind, they will never be more than the OS for small pre-programmed devices like routers and the like. Windows and Macintosh have both shown that the computer can be used by anyone, all you have to do is know where to click. Linux seems like a step back. And yes, I know Mac was first…. I can give credit where credit is due.
At Any Rate, let’s see how each of the distros I tried fared individually.
Ubuntu
Latest release: 8.10
My First choice. Most popular by hits at Distrowatch.com and there is a great support community. It installed quickly; popped right up at boot. I dug the look. I set up my normal static IP
address and was online in seconds. Unfortunately, I had to do this every reboot from this point forward since this latest *stable* release doesn’t save static IP Settings… no, I’m not kidding. Online guides I followed to hack my way around this failing resulted in disabling the Ethernet all together. Yes I followed them correctly. The online community is great; very vocal and always willing to come up with a solution that may or may not work.
I tried to install the latest nVidia Linux drivers. I have to tell the program I want the program how I want it to be run first. then I have to essentially leave Linux to a pure command prompt, and type in three excessive commands:
1. to stop some system service called X Server since the driver can’t install with it running
2. to install the driver
3. restart the X Server
This resulted in a garbled low-res image of a menu that told me my drivers were incorrect and led me in a menu circle of, “This driver doesn’t work, try another. Would you like to use different drivers or use a default?” I tried to default to some pre-installed drivers a version behind, these loaded initially, and after a reboot resulted in another low resolution garbled screen.
At this point (4:30AM) the system became unusable. This led me to go to bed… with a headache. On Wednesday morning I tried…
OpenSUSE
Latest Version 11.1
Never installed. Started to, but then screen went black and stayed black despite me waiting for as long as 30 minutes. The hard drive light flicked occasionally but nothing more. I moved (relatively) quickly to…
Fedora
Latest Version 10
This also never installed, though apparently it’s because it never finishes the partitioning process. I’ll be kind and assume this is because I’m trying to Dual boot with Vista which is known for being a bit picky.
I stopped here, as I found out that the failed Fedora installation screwed up the GRUB boot loader and my computer was no longer booting properly. I rebuilt all of the boot files with the windows bootloader and regions and did what I should have done at 8:30 Tuesday Evening: I expanded my Vista partition and went looking for something else to do.
Three installations, three failures.
Oh, I know what’s next: “There’s something wrong with your hardware,” or “You’re a moron.” No, there isn’t and no I’m not. This is all on hardware I know is in great condition and working perfectly. Heck nearly all of it is new and not so bleeding-edge new that it’s unsupported. It’s just new enough to be good but stable and well supported. It’s all been burned-in and tested and retested when I installed the motherboard.
Let’s not forget that I also use this computer every day without fail and I haven’t had crash on since the new motherboard has been installed, some 3 months ago. I’ve been building and loading PCs since they were little more than a hobby piece.
The one possible issue I see with my hardware, according to the Linux devotees, is that my P45 motherboard chipset could be the culprit. Apparently there are a few issues between P45 and Linux. This board, however, is one of the more widely popular Intel Motherboards and the Linux programmers should be more aware of that. After all, everyone’s most hated OS ever, Windows Vista, works like a charm on it.
It wasn’t all bad. Based on the Ubuntu install and the couple Live CDs I tried at least this much is true: Linux is impressive looking. It has a very slick look and lots of eye candy, if you want it, without much of a noticeable system slow down, either. Ubuntu loaded like a bullet. Fedora was very fast once it loaded from the LiveCD. It seems secure as heck, especially since you essentially can’t do anything without root access at the terminal. I’ll also be fair here and note that I was trying to dual boot these distros. Not all OSes behave well when it comes to dual booting. It is possible this and this alone is responsible for the problems I ran into, at least with openSUSE and Fedora.
You know, I remember the uproar when Windows Vista’s User Access control was a lot more prominent. Mac even made ads attacking it. Hell I hated it and to this day it’s disabled on this PC. Someone should have given these people Linux. Linux, from what I can see, is the triumph of security over usability. The upside, though is that with the massive amount of effort to accomplish the simplest of functions, it’s pretty hard for the end user to screw it up. Linux is on the cusp of being something really awesome, though. They’ve got the look, and the tech is great behind a bunch of it, now they just need to get someone to tell them that actual people will need to use it and show them what a mouse is.
I’ll take a look at it again in a year or so whenever they get past using the command line to do something as simple as install drivers. As far as my experience goes, however, I took the road less travelled… and based on my experiences; I can now see why no one takes it. It’s a road to a hell. This wasn’t even a new, different hell, but a hell I remember from before 1995.
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60 Responses to “Linux FAIL”
DOS…? Command lines…? Those are nightmares to the computer illiterate. (ie, me)
Informative read though. I’ve been curious about Linux since hearing about the horrors of Vista. It doesn’t sound much better.. then again some people praise Vista and think it’s great and sparkly and perfect. I’ve never tried it myself, but I’m very happy with XP.
Looking at a YouTube video and some pictures of Linux on Google, I have to agree about it looking nice. Very slick. I could never, ever imagine doing this on Windows! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTRsLW0eet0
Don’t believe the hate on Vista. It’s a big program and a monster memory hog, but once it got past it’s early driver issues and people learned how to get past User Access control, I’ve found it pretty damn stable. I had far more crashes when I was using XP at about the same age. XP now is stable as hell, of course, but it’s also 8 years old.
Windows 7 Looks excellent so far and I’m really looking forward to the finished product.
I also had some bad experiences with linux. I’ve been on windows machines since the early days of DOS, and have even built a Hackintosh.
I’m not sure if my expectations are too high or what, but every year or so I try the latest and greatest linux distro only to find that its more trouble to get everything going than I have time for.
Back when I was in school and single, maybe I could have done the linux thing, but now I have a job and kids.
It’s my opinion that linux will really never break into the mainstream. I just don’t think the community “gets it”.
Jay, I too, tried it before, maybe a year ago, but didn’t remember enough to be able to comment specifically. At any rate, I tend to agree with you here. Though, I don’t think it’s really an issue of *not* getting it, as much as they don’t *want* to get it, as illustrated by another commenter. They want the system to be the way it is, apparently, and really aren’t interested in making it a wider success than it already is.
I think it would make a great competitor to Windows, though if they could stop trying to be the OS for people whoe like everything to be difficult. I hope someone over there decides to try an make the software more approachable, because the more alternatives, the better.
Thanks!
Pretty uninformative reading.
You tried only 3 distribution? C’mon, this is ridiculous.
Your failures explain why command line still live – everything user-friendly which biased toward gui fails more frequently.
You tried only three distributions.
Try Slackware or Gentoo.
> I began my computing life back on DOS and earlier
> command based systems
DOS doesn’t count – nothing in common with Linux. Only unix does count.
> I could try out a Linux OS.
Whoever told you that Linux is a windows replacement should be whacked in the head with tire iron, so there will be one stupid fanboy less in the world. Those operating systems are completely different and it was explained one thousand times already:
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
> great support community
This is a myth. Ubuntu community is big, but mostly inexperienced.
They will help you by pointing out which buttons to press, but once you are in real trouble, your chances to get help will be low.
Great support communities exist on more difficult distributions – Gentoo, Slackware, Debian. Or buy something with commercial support, if you can’t fix things yourself.
> The only typing I should have to enter are user names and passwords.
You forgot one thing – any kind of distribution is provided to you as is, without warranties. You have choices: either accept it as it is, or try to modify it by submitting patches or leave and use something else.
> programmers should be more aware of that.
No, they shouldn’t be. They work on parts they want to work, because they want to work. Read license agreement. “No warranties of any kind”. Same thing as microsoft eula, only for free. However, you are free to make your hardware work with kernel. Or you can expect that it will be supported in next kernel release.
Conclusion:
Linux doesn’t fail. YOU fail.
explanation:
You went to install another OS expecting free windows replacement. Well, you got what you deserved, welcome to reality. Linux isn’t windows. Not better, not worse than windows, but completely different.
Both operating systems has their own annoying problems. Typically you should switch operating only if you absolutely sure why you want to do that and you should be prepared to spend some time learning that. No way around that – you might avoid learning system if you are lucky, but you’ll probably pay for that later IF something breaks.
User-friendly distribution (which you tried) are worst, especially ubuntu. Sure Ubuntu is free, sure it works for some people and tells other people how good free software is and blah-blah-blah, but when newbie-oriented distribution with flashy GUI breaks, you’ll be in trouble, because such distribution preventss you from learning anything useful by being user-friendly. So IF things go wrong on ubuntu you simply won’t have skills to find solution with google, read manuals, etc. Things like Slackware or Gentoo are much tougher to learn, but generally it will pay off.
And you should have checked if your hardware is supported by the kernel.
Advice:
Use whichever OS you want, but don’t write rubbish about those you wasn’t be able to install or run for whichever reason. There are enough operating systems to chose from, and they have similar amount of problems, but in different areas. So simply consider which OS doesn’t have problems in area that is important for you, and then pick your poison.
As for Windows 7 – common sense tells me that there is no point in upgrading to it unless some software on your system requires it. Remembering standard microsoft way of making OSes, they probably will remain software full of bugs which will become usable only year later.
“Pretty uninformative reading.
You tried only 3 distribution? C’mon, this is ridiculous.”
I was waiting for one of you guys to peek out of the dark corners of the intarwebz. I shouldn’t have to try more than 1 distro to get a a OS that will *load* on common hardware. The primary failing of Linux is its 4,000 builds. It only makes sense t go with the more common distros as a starting point. Thanks for the great helpful start, though! You sure make me want to interact with the linux community.
“Whoever told you that Linux is a windows replacement should be whacked in the head with tire iron, so there will be one stupid fanboy less in the world. Those operating systems are completely different and it was explained one thousand times already”
No One said anything of the sort, I was just looking for something to do with my time. it was an experiment to play with a small spare partition on my hard drive. Read all the words.
“DOS doesn’t count – nothing in common with Linux. Only unix does count”
Other than that it’s got a command line, which was the point.
“This is a myth. Ubuntu community is big, but mostly inexperienced.”
They’re great, in that they are easily accessed and not filled with elitists. They are not all sysadmins, but then neither am I. Neither will most people wanting to load a computer at home be sysadmins.
“You forgot one thing – any kind of distribution is provided to you as is, without warranties. You have choices: either accept it as it is, or try to modify it by submitting patches or leave and use something else.”
Correct, which is why I tried a few and found they all have the same basic failing.
“No, they shouldn’t be. They work on parts they want to work, because they want to work. Read license agreement. “No warranties of any kind”. Same thing as microsoft eula, only for free. However, you are free to make your hardware work with kernel. Or you can expect that it will be supported in next kernel release”
Wow, man, I’m starting to think you’re taking it personally. I *like* alternatives to windows. I would like to see decent competition for it and this has a lot of promise. However it has to be able to leave the sysadmin/unix-geek realm if its going to gain traction and start being more widely supported. people like you do nothing to help that. If programmers want their software to be unusuable except by other programs, fine with me, but they can’t expect the wider world to accept them
“Conclusion:
Linux doesn’t fail. YOU fail.”
Your conclusion is faulty based on faulty reasoning and elitist fanboyism. But You’re still my friend.
“You went to install another OS expecting free windows replacement. Well, you got what you deserved, welcome to reality. Linux isn’t windows. Not better, not worse than windows, but completely different.”
Newp, I went in expecting a fuctioning piece of software to play with as an alternative experience to windows, not a replacement. This, again, was an experiment and a way to see what’s out there and have something to toy with. I’m perfectly happy using software that works on my hardware and have no urge to replace my OS.
“Both operating systems has their own annoying problems. Typically you should switch operating only if you absolutely sure why you want to do that and you should be prepared to spend some time learning that. No way around that – you might avoid learning system if you are lucky, but you’ll probably pay for that later IF something breaks.
User-friendly distribution (which you tried) are worst, especially ubuntu. Sure Ubuntu is free, sure it works for some people and tells other people how good free software is and blah-blah-blah, but when newbie-oriented distribution with flashy GUI breaks, you’ll be in trouble, because such distribution preventss you from learning anything useful by being user-friendly. So IF things go wrong on ubuntu you simply won’t have skills to find solution with google, read manuals, etc. Things like Slackware or Gentoo are much tougher to learn, but generally it will pay off.”
This is all excellent! It’s insightful and not insulting. I agree with all of it. However, most people use an OS to use an OS, not learn anything. I don’t want a class, I would like to try something different.
“And you should have checked if your hardware is supported by the kernel.”
Common hardware should be supported by all kernels, but fair enough.
“Use whichever OS you want, but don’t write rubbish about those you wasn’t be able to install or run for whichever reason.”
Here’s some counter advice, write whatever you want and I’ll do the same. I want to write about software from a user’s perspective, not a terminal fanboy’s perspective. the Linux distros I tried were not easily usable form a user’s perspective, thus the article. Tada!
“As for Windows 7 – common sense tells me that there is no point in upgrading to it unless some software on your system requires it. Remembering standard microsoft way of making OSes, they probably will remain software full of bugs which will become usable only year later.”
This is gospel. nothing works out of the box, Vista was freaking horrid at launch and driver support sucked. XP wasn’t much better. XP marvelous now, though. Win7 essentially seems to be a major bug/security release for Vista, but the improvements seem stable and useful. But it’s always a patch game.
Thanks for reading!
“I tried to install the latest nVidia Linux drivers…”
From where? The way you describe it, I assume you got them from nvidia.com – which would be the wrong place to get those drivers.
Ubuntu already has latest drivers ready to be installed with the built-in tools; one should not download them from nVidia, nor need to ever leave the GUI to install them. Ubuntu will even pop up a notification saying it has better drivers for your GPU, and ask whether you want to use those. It all just works with a simple point-and-click interface.
“Leave the command line for emergencies…”
That depends a whole lot on your needs. I primarily use Windows Vista, but I have installed Cygwin since I find a good shell and common Unix utilities so much more powerful than anything the Windows UI can provide. A few powerful lines of shell commands can save me several minutes of clicking around between various file managers. Especially when developing and transferring files between computers.
“From where? The way you describe it, I assume you got them from nvidia.com – which would be the wrong place to get those drivers.”
You’re right on the money there, the version pre-installed with Ubuntu seemed to be a version behind. Perhaps I’ll try again and just leave the pre-installed nVidia drivers in place. I always assume the newer the drivers, especially fdor established hardware, the better off I am. It’s a good tip, though.
“A few powerful lines of shell commands can save me several minutes of clicking around between various file managers. Especially when developing and transferring files between computers.”
Absolutely, but remember, I’m no developer. I’m trying this from a regular ol making documents and pretty pictures end user point of view. While DOS is certianly no where near as full featured as Unix or Linux command line, I remember reverting back to DOS when Windows first launched for a vast number of functions, so I imagine the advantage still remains. But the DOS command line was a lot friendlier and approachable, too.
Good stuff, though. Thanks for stopping by!
Please stay with Windows. There are people who don’t deserve the pleasure and freedom of running Linux and you are obviously one of them.
John,
Thanks so much for the marvelous counter argument you make. Clearly, I don’t deserve the pleasure and freedom of using a command structure from 20 years ago because “graphical interfaces don’t work very well.” Heck, you should be completely “free” and completely run with the “pleasure” of a completely text based interface. Who needs graphics!
Based on your example, I’m clearly not enough of an ass to be a linux user.
Thanks for stopping by!
Hey — so, I am a casualty of Vista and have since gone with Linux Mint. And, it’s totally not for everyone, but I can say that I’ve gotten the OS to work on most of the hardware in my house — I had issues with some VIA video drivers, but not much else has posed a problem.
This thread of comments is irritating — I hate it when people come out of the wood work to bash folks. I am still learning Linux, I love it. It’s free, I get great support from the community (when I ask clear questions!). I use it on three computers in my house — I dual boot one with Windows so I can use things like iTunes (which still doesn’t have a Linux version.)
Stay with whatever you like.
But to be fair, I rarely use the command line at all, and really, I use it when I want to get at something quickly and don’t want to dig around folders. In terms of drivers, I use the NVidia drivers that came with Ubuntu and they work fine — if you’re not doing something super graphical, stick with the stable, working drivers. If you’re trying to play games, etc, then linux is the wrong platform anyway.
Oh well, good luck with all of this. And could the Window Bashers and Linux Bashers just go home? You give the internet a bad name.
Chow,
I’ve heard a lot of good things about Mint, but after my first few tries you can imagine why I’m a bit gun-shy to try anything more, but I’ll consider it. I may revisit the Linux family it in a while but it certainly left a bad taste in my mouth. I can certainly understand why people ran the hell away from Vista, especially at the launch. Ex-Vista user is becoming as common as lapsed catholic and for reasons that make just as much sense.
Speaking of which, I can’t help but agree with you about the thread of comments. I can’t say I’m surprised that someone came out so negatively, but I didn’t expect it so quickly. I think it’s the nature of the internet, though, it brings out the very worst of people that normally sit at home and hide in mommy’s basement. Fanboy’s go home! I don’t even care if you like what I like, go home!
As far as my little experiment itself goes, however, I was never really looking for more than something just to try and to mess around with. Another commenter also mentioned using the default drivers for Ubuntu and that may also be something I try later. For games, of course, I’ll be sticking with a primary Windows rig and I use XP on a small file server.
Thanks for the thoughtful and helpful feedback. Hope you stop by again!
Another non-destructive way of trying out various Linux distros (and other OSs in general) is to run them in a nice cozy http://www.virtualbox.org/ – has the added benefit of having your whole working Windows in the background to seek out information in case something blows up in the distro.
Another great tip! Thanks, Tino.
Aww I’m sorry you’ve had a bad experience with linux thus far! I myself always had good luck with Ubuntu and LinuxMint (which is based off of Ubuntu, just with more drivers/codecs/fancy GUI). I hope you do give it a go later on, but hey, stick to what works for you… computers are to make life easier, not harder :D
No worries! I will indeed try it again. I was just surprised at the number of issues I ran into. I think perhaps we’re right on the edge of it having better hardware support and a more user friendly experience, so after a while, I’ll be tinkering again!
I’m not sure as whether to be amused or amazed at all this ranting, wailing and gnashing of teeth! :) I started using Linux in Jan 95 (Slack) and *then* it was, uh.. a challenge to get more than a command line system. After running Linux on the server side since that time I decided to really dig into a desktop distro and went with Ubuntu 8.10 in January. When I have to run XP Pro I do so under Sun VirtualBox in one of the four desktops and it works like a charm. Ubuntu has been extremely stable for me as in zero crashes since inception in early January.
I’m a tad surprised that someone who’s a “geek” doesn’t like working from a CMDL as there’s rarely a more efficient way to get admin stuff done. Even MickeySoft is owning up to that one with it’s recent move towards adding even more power to it’s CMDL environment. As an SMB IT jock doing it for dinner I use a CMDL environment in both Linux and Win as much as possible. Yes one has to remember a bit of syntax but hey that’s nothing a built up cheat-sheet of commonly used commands can’t handle. In sum no Linux isn’t Windows (peronally I believe a very good thing) and has a few quirks of it’s own but is well worth the learning curve. It’s like a fine lady of culture. Going for a one night stand won’t get you far. :) Cheers!
I am not sure whether to be stunned or amused at the fact that people apparently want to use command line interfaces instead of graphical ones. I am more than willing to use a command line occasionally in order to achieve a fix, solve a problem or unscrew something that screwed itself. I should not have to dive into command line just to do simple maintenance like installing a driver. It’s very simple. Which is more difficult? Dragging a file from one folder to another, especially a nested one, or typing in the command? The entire purpose of graphical interfaces is to make life easier. Nearly every single peson that makes some sort of crack about how incompetent I am or questions my geek cred (like the only kind of geek is a command line geek, geez, as if!), seems to think it’s more important to be secure than to be able to easily do things on my computer. I am also not an admin. I realize that this level of cmdl is minimal and essentially baby steps for my network admins at work. I’ll say it again, though: I’m not an admin, and have no wish to be one.
The entire point of a computer is to do things. It has to be usable. To me.
I appreciate new things. I want to try new things. Linux was one of those things and those Linux enthusiasts that gave helpful pointers are those likely to get me to try it again. I’ve said this 19 fucking times and no one seems to get it: I don’t want Linux to be Windows. But there are simple point and click usability aspects of windows that should be bare minimums. My Car has wheels, maybe you’ve invented a new type of vehicle, but in addition to a million other great features it has 10 legs that I have to have shoes put on them every day by hand. I believe that wheels make more sense. I don’t want the entire rest of your vehicle to be like mine, and I appreciate how awesomely stable 10 legs would be over 4 narrow wheels, I just don’t want to be putting shoes on my car every god damn day. I don’t care if there’s a cheat sheet showing me how to most quickly put all the shoes on, either. it’s still a pain.
I am perfectly happy that Linux isn’t Windows and I want Microshaft to have competition and have that competition be successful. That isn’t going to happen unless normal people and enthusiasts can make it work without having to learn a new language or have a cheat sheet. We’ve moved beyond that.
In short, the world of computers isn’t populated completely by admins. I will give Linux a try again, I don’t hate it or the people that love it, i just think it needs a bit more maturity to be accessible by regular people.
I began using Ubuntu Linux back in 2006, and we didn’t get along. I started modern computing with Windows 95, and I followed through on every release since. My original experience with Ubuntu was a disaster because I was used to Windows and the way it worked. Also, working from a Live CD did nothing to help matters. I threw up my hands in disgust and walked away.
Time went by and I picked up the 7.04 release of Ubuntu. The “Gamer” edition. I like games, and that’s what I chose it for. Of course, I dual booted with XP, because that’s where all my data was, and I was willing to tank this thing in an instant if I decided I didn’t like it.
As luck would have it, a virus came along and turned my HDD into kibble. The data was still there, (most of it anyway), but my Windows installation was ruined. I didn’t have time to sort the problem out. After all, I DID have another OS on this computer. I fell to using it exclusively.
Somewhere in the mix before the virus bomb, I tied my e-mail account to my Ubuntu install. I would literally boot into Ubuntu just to check my mail for a while, but then it was back to Windows where my fun programs were. But that wasn’t working anymore. It was use Linux or nothing, and it wasn’t going to be nothing.
I pulled my hair out. This wasn’t Windows. It didn’t work like Windows. Video card drivers and the mystic voodoo required to get them working right made my balls hurt. Google was my only friend. I had to, for the first time in a LONG time, dive into some computer problem blind. And then I realized something…
I … liked it!
I knew the Windows fix-it-all: Reinstallation. That’s just how you fix Windows when it goes south. But now I was being encouraged to tear things apart and make them work the way I wanted them to. Like you, I am a GUI whore. I want to click the pretty picture and have it go … ZOOM! … and I’m done with the problem. But that’s not how Linux is distributed. Command lines and shell scripts, ~$bash: and root. These are the things Linux is made of. But there is another facet to the penguin as well: the providence for customization.
I tweaked and pulled and wrangled until this bare framework with so much potential looked and acted the way I wanted it to. I can honestly do anything with Ubuntu that I want to, but I wouldn’t want to set things up again. (I have when I upgraded my 40 GB HDD to a 500 GB, that’s how I know.) The Penguin has done me proud. I don’t crash, I’m not prone to infections, and security is a non-issue. Everything for me IS point and click unless something breaks and I have to open a terminal. It took work, but the end result is worth it.
With that said, I still have a Windows XP hard drive on my machine. (Tried Vista, but it wouldn’t install SP1 and eventually the HDD it was on died). I use Windows as an afterthought for games that still don’t play nice enough on my Linux installation. I almost never go online with it. My Ubuntu distribution is version 8.10 (Intrepid Ibex) as of this writing, and I may not upgrade to Jaunty Jackalope when it is released due to the pain in the ass it has been to upgrade in the past with drivers breaking from one distro to the next.
In short, Linux is a tinker’s OS. You use it because you like “fscking” with things. It’s powerful, open, and useful. It’s also different. People gravitate towards it because it invites being poked at and messed with.
So maybe you ought to give Linux another go. Or not, as you choose. If you’re curious there’s a lot of things there to keep you busy. Just be prepared to see things you’ve never seen before.
Alan,
Thank you for the very thoughtful response. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head and I agree with everything you’ve said. As I do like “fsking” with things, I most certainly will give this a try again in the future. Despite the ignorant and angry comments of folks like Andy, I would love to see “moar Linux,” despite the difficulties I experienced.
I would love to see Linux (I have no idea which variation) move and become a more powerful market force to counter Microsoft. One thing you mentioned interested me specifically, the bit about not upgrading due to the difficulties, really underlines why, in my opinion, Linux is not spreading outside of the tech society. Any idiot can install Windows, though few know how to really make it stable and keep it running. But the crucial bit that allows a much maligned OS like windows spread like wildfire is just that. Little Johnny can install it on his home computer for mom and dad. It will crash alot, and likely run poorly because Little Johnny doesn’t know the tricks, but it will run and show off it’s little bells and whistles.
I just wish the Linux society could see the value in their OS spreading. apparently, based on the comments I receive, most Linux users have no interest in anyone ever using the OS besides themselves. this is painfully shortsighted and more likely to lead to linux ending up in the rubbish bin of computer history, along with GW-Basic and IBM-DOS.
Thanks again, Alan, and thanks for stopping by!
As a recent Ubuntu installer, I found the process pleasant and easy. To get some fairly complex customisations it took some doing, but it wasn’t particularly terrible. For most people they wouldn’t need that.
Ubuntu does what it needs to out of the box. I don’t think you know how to solve problems. The command line isn’t to be feared, it’s more usable than GUI’s for everything and in places it is appropriate to use.
But, in conclusion, you don’t need Ubuntu. More importantly, Ubuntu doesn’t need you. It will move on regardless of your inability to work with it and when you’re ready again, it will still be there. I agree that your assessment was poor an undeserved. To comment on Linux, I think you need to actually use it for a period of time. I wouldn’t trust a car review of a new BMW Z4 from someone who can’t change gears either.
Andy,
Thank you for replying. Your ignorant and angry reply fully illustrates the difference between intelligent people like Alan who honestly analyze and reply to a post and chest-thumping morons like yourself that completely fail to understand anything past the title of an article. Your knee-jerk, fanboi reply failed to address even the most basic of points raised in any of the comments or the post itself. Great Job!
I want Linux to succeed and be in more places than your mother’s basement, but ease of install-ability is part of that, whether the great Linux masses want to admit it or not.
But thanks anyway! If only by a bad example you are of some value.
You are a rare case of someone that has any trouble with installing a Linux OS.
I am typing this from my Ubuntu 8.04 laptop. All 4 computers in my house all run some sort of Linux OS and none of them have had any problems during installing and my girlfriends 5 year old laptop with the lowest specs took an installation of Linux Mint and then later Puppy Linux without her ever running to me for help.
Linux OS’s are great for people that don’t like feeling like they are trapped and restricted by their machines. People should have the freedom to change anything they want, and get whatever software they need to get the job done.
Josh,
I’ve heard noting but good from Linux and I believe a large part of the issues stem from me trying to do a dual boot… after all I was just tinkering around. But, ironically, the other primary reason I had issues may have to do with the hardware. I was, ironically, trapped and restricted by my machine, lol. Apparently the P45 chipsets cause some issues with a lot of the distros. I’m sure it’s something tha will be resolved.
At any rate, as I’ve noted before, I will be returning to Linux in the future, but it will be the only OS on whatever machine I use for it. I love the open source aspect of Linux and it is for this reason that makes me want it to spread out more than the base it’s already won over. It is also precisely this quality that made me want to try it to begin with and will make me want to try it again.
Thanks again for stopping by and thanks for the feedback!
“Linux is only free if your time has no value.” — Jamie Zawinski
I love this quote despite the fact that I am a linux user. The argument that both you and Evil Guy are engaged in intrigues me because a year ago I Had your perspective and now I am more inclined to side with him. The only difference between your story and mine is I pressed on and latter found that Linux fit me better than windows. If you are looking for a system that works otb then linux probably isnt the answer for you and I found that out quick. Any linux distro worth using is going to take some time to set up the way you like it. It does seem that you have the aptitude and the curiosity to pursue linux if you were so inclined, but I think that you probably should have approached it with the spirit of the hobbyist that you describe yourself as instead of as a computer user who just wants to hop in the drivers seat and drive.
I started using Linux because of frustrations I had for windows that were not windows fault. You stopped using linux for frustrations that are not linux’ fault. Linux is not an OS, its a kernel and thousands of distros have been created around that kernel. Each disro is very different and most of them have been created for free in an environment that is hostile towards Linux. Hardware/drivers are always made with Windows in mind but could give a rats ass about the thousands of linux disros out there.
ninjamax,
Dig the quote! It’s certainly true, not just in this case, but in the case of anything done on a computer.
At any rate, I found your comments interesting. Perhaps, the hate —-> love trend is the norm for Linux users. While I’m glad you pressed on, my time is a bit short and I was just looking to tinker a bit with some extra HD space, nothing more than that. When more time (and a bit of spare hardware) presents itself, I’ll build a Linux box and tinker more seriously and on a system of it’s own so I don’t need to worry about windows getting in the way. When that happens, I’m sure I’ll have a better experience.
You’re right about the drivers, for sure. Like it or not (and I concur with most that don’t) it’s a Windows world. Windows has many *many* negatives about it, but one thing they got right is ease of installation of both the OS and the drivers. I don’t believe this is always necessarily a good thing, but it certainly helps it spread faster. Anyway, the lack of driver support is very much responsible for some of the issues I had with the chipset on my motherboard, I believe. The dual boot I was attempting was more than likely the second nail in the coffin.
I’ve not stopped using Linux. I never really started. I’m waiting a bit. For the amount of time I was looking to put into this bit of tinkering, Linux was not the right time-killer for me. In addition to a hobby linux box, when next I upgrade the drives in my file server, I’m thinking of going with a Linux distro again, though that will be a while yet. The hardware is older but stable and more than enough for Linux and I expect better results when that comes.
Thanks again, Max!
Although I am not personally a fan of windows, i dont think it really matters what OS a person uses, it just depends what a person wants out of their OS. For me, I use Ubuntu 9.04, and it provides stabiliity
Shpadoinkle,
At the end of the day, that’s all that will ever matter. “Does this do what I need it to do as well as I need it to do it?” is the most important question a person can ask themselves of their OS. If it is and it does, well, there you go! if it doesn’t then there are alternatives. I’d like to see more alternatives: the more the merrier.
Thanks for stopping by!
Linux is not meant for the simple users, which if you’ve only used DOS-Windows you are not prepared for what Linux has to offer. It’s an advanced operating system with a lot of flexibility. If you couldn’t follow the instructions to setup the static IP, you definitely don’t need to be using Linux…at all.
Whew, another ass, man there are a shit load of you guys! As i stated in the article you failed to read completely, Setting the static IP was easy, just as easy as windows. however it would not keep the settings. A bit of research online pretty quickly yielded the fact that the specific Ubuntu distro I was using was unable to retain these settings as the distro is designed to and that it was a known issue. There are some workarounds, but no consensus and not all of them worked for every person.
This is a perfect example of why you people… and by that I mean people like you, Rob… are part of the problem, not part of the solution. In this particular instance, the distro was clearly at fault. Yet, for whatever reason, you would rather be a cock-gobbling asshole and make it the user’s fault. Let me try to put this in simple terms you might understand: Your OS is not perfect and neither is mine. Do a little research yourself next time.
You shouldn’t be appalled by the command line so much. Some things are still more efficient to do through it. As an example, if i want to install amarok, a music app, i can just type sudo apt-get install amarok in a cli. I can do it through a gui, but this is much faster and simpler than navigating through 3-4 menus, and clicking 3-4 buttons. Generally, if you know what you want to do, and how to do it, it’s usually simpler and more effective this way. There are of course things that are more effective to do through a gui, like reviewing data, navigating through directories and copying/moving files. I guess true bliss comes by doing things both ways, each when appropriate :).
Most instructions you can find on the net will be a bunch of commands, even if the its result can be accomplished by clicking stuff, because it’s easier to explain that way than to say “click there, then click on the 3rd menu on the right etc.”, and the command line is not tied to a window manager(gnome, kde…).
Using linux is way different from using windows. The computer illiterate person can use linux without a problem, but not configure it. The group that has the most grief when using linux are users who have used windows for a long time, and know their way around it. Linux has a different way of doing things, and it takes time to get used to it. Configuring things is definitely harder than in windows, but there are also much more things you can configure :)
Shwick,
it’s not an issue of confued by the command line so much as not beliving it’s necessary at this point in computer development for simple tasks. While you can easily type the command you listed, I can double click and Icon and hit next twice and I’m done. Clicking is easier than typing. But I do understand and agree that there are times when the command line, even in the limited command line environment of DOS/Windows, is a more efficient way of accomplishing a goal.
You’ve really struck on something when you say, “the group that has the most grief when using linux are users who have used windows for a long time, and know their way around it.” There is essentially nothing I am not comfortable working with within the windows environment and I know how to prevent and fix whatever little problems might pop up here and there. While I bitch about The Linux driver install issues, I’ve had horror stories working with bad windows drivers and registry artifacts. it’s what you’re used to, I suppose, to a great deal.
As I’ve said before, I am looking forward to building a dedicated linux box in the future and likely using it as my file server, I simply had a bad first experience. The more reasonable folks, like yourself, have given me some great tips and hints and I will definitely try them when I do this little experiment again.
Thanks for the comment and thanks for reading!
With regards to the assholery that I believe you knowingly brought upon yourself, I as a linux user am only slightly embarrassed and not at all surprised that you feel its wrath, freedom comes at a price and while you wanted to explore that freedom you didn’t want to pay that price. Linux freely gives you the tools to do whatever you want for yourself. SELL A MAN A FISH AND THEY KNOW WHERE TO GET FISH, TEACH A MAN TO FISH AND WHAT THE FUCK DO THEY NEED YOU FOR. Linux teaches Windows and Mac sell.
The humor in our stories is that when I installed linux mint a year ago I knew jack shit about computers in general. I had only been a computer owner for 3 years and have never worked a job that required me to know much of anything about the suckers. I did not know how to partition a hard drive or even what it was, I had never touched a command line, I knew jack about drivers, did not know the difference between static vs dynamic ips, and I had hardware problems. You however seem to be very comfortable with that and did not even panic when suse lost your partition. I think you went into this thinking that since you know a thing or two about a thing or two you can dive in head first (very commendable by the way) but got out when you realised you needed to splash around a bit before you realised the water was not that cold. I think that because you were already technically inclined you expected this endeavour to come to you naturally and instead of finding fault in yourself or your hardware, you decided to point a finger @ linux as a whole (example = linux fail) and the 3 of 4000+ linux distros that made themselves available to you free of charge. I however went into this with no preconcived notions and found myself insulted by my own ineptitude that I pushed on to prove I could do it. You could have done it but wouldn’t and I shouldn’t have done it but did… that is not to say that had you pressed on you would have had the same affinity for this subject as I do.
Why does Linux have to fail because you wouldn’t make it work for you. What does linux owe you. I gave a homeless man 5 dollars once and he gave me shit about not giving me the 10 I had in my hand… just as I should feel no guilt about him not being able to be sustained by my charity, nor should linux feel guilt about you being able to be sustained by its. I am glad to see that you will in the future try again and who knows you still might hate it I just hope that you learn to hate it for what it is and not because of your faulty notions.
Ninja,
Thanks stopping back by. You illustrate a point made earlier by Shwick, that those who have the most grief are people who are very comfortable with windows and know it very well. I’m not sure if it’s old habits or just a generally unperceived difference between the two that obviously exists. I will however say that I do not have to try all 4000 distros to be able to comment. I tried the three most popular and dabbled with a couple more of the slightly less popular. This, is another of the weaknesses of linux, while also a strength. it also makes it really fucking hard to decide which one to try! for every person that says try ubuntu, another says it sucks ass, try Fedora. Another will say Fedora is crap try Gentoo. There is no consensus.
With regards to the assholery (which has not been even remotely universal, some people seem capable of intelligent thought), it is just that. It doesn’t matter whether they like Linux or not, or if I’ve offended their delicate sensibilities. They need to grow up. I tried, and I’ll try again. If it doesn’t install well on common hardware, it’s a failure of the OS. I want to support the linux community because I just fucking love the idea of open source, but I can’t support it if I can’t get it to work on run of the mill stuff, now can I?
Thanks again, Ninja!
I switched to linux based OS when Windows Vista crashed on me for the last time and made me loose a lot of my data. First I used Ubuntu which at the time had a lot of bugs which was great for a newbie like me because it made me get deeper in the OS and fix those problems. Linux OS actually teaches you instead of making you a ignorant zombie. I actually wish I would have learned how to compile a kernel and stuff like that. Now I use Fedora on a Sony Vaio NR series and I have not had any crashes or lose of data of any kind, do not need to keep up with antiviruses or any crap like that, I am completely happy with Fedora Linux. I will never waste my time or money on any Microcrap software ever again, and I look forward to a trouble free Linux. Linux IS superior to Windows.
Windows=viruses, bluebox of death, lose of data, total EXPENSIVE crap.
Linux=FREEDOM of all kinds.
Oh I forgot…FUCK MICROSOFT AND ALL ITS GARBAGE!
Sorry I really forgot…the only time you cant get Linux to work is when your a brain dead zombie product of Microsoft! Biatch!!
Awesome. Just awesome.
I will do the Linux community a favor and not judge them all by you. Were I to do so I’d have to assume they’re all angry 12 year-olds who are incapable of running Windows properly. Most likely someone who likely infected their improperly installed Windows trying to download boi-on-boi porn… not that there’s anything wrong with that. Though I will mention that hearing the old mac defense “We don’t get viruses,” applied to Linux gave me a chuckle.
Thanks for an extra-special glimpse at the future of our species.
***TURN ON ASS KICKING MACHINERY***
What the hairy hell are you guys doing? Why does it sound like you all have deep-rooted psychological issues when the discussion of an operating system comes up? I really don’t understand what the problem is, but I have a few ideas which I’ll be keeping to myself.
Bariguy gave the penguin a shot and it didn’t go his way. By screaming random obscenities you are not winning a convert. Stop being elitist. For all you know, Bariguy could turn out to be the one to create your new favorite application, but for the fact you disgusted him with your prattle and he did not wish to be associated with you.
When someone is having trouble with Linux, you DO NOT scream at them and call them an idiot. You offer useful advice. The key word here is “useful.” Bloody roars of “FUCK MICROSOFT CUZ ITZ TEH SUXORZ!” is infantile, obnoxious, and worse than useless; it gets in the way of actually fixing the problem.
When you choose to use Linux, you are tech support. There is no hotline to call, rather people ask other users, (and in some cases the very engineers), how they solved the problem. You have a kind of responsibility to help those who came after you. But this apparently hasn’t sunk in. Far too many who have posted here seem to think that it’s cool to use Linux because it makes you some kind of “1337 h4xx0rz.” You’re not special. You’re glorified script kiddies and mindless fanboys with insecurity issues.
***ASS KICKING MACHINERY OFFLINE***
Bariguy, I’ll help you work the problem. It’s going to suck, but I think we can get it going. You’re completely right that it should work right out of the box on common hardware, and as far as I knew until I heard of your problem, it did. I’ve done several Ubuntu installs over a variety of hardware, and your problem appears to be an outlier.
With a little fine tuning, we can get your Linux install to look and behave however you want. And I mean HOWEVER you want. (My home server desktop environment is indistinguishable from Windows Vista. I chose to make it this way because I had a friend visiting from out of town and he was going to need a computer to work on while he was here.) My personal desktop doesn’t look anything like what ships with Ubuntu on the Live CD, for example. My wife is running Vanilla Ubuntu and I’ve heard no complaints apart from a wireless driver which took me a couple of hours to line out. (We wound up using the Windows driver! And it WORKED!!)
So if you can, pay no attention to the script kiddies. I know it’s tempting, but it’s just going to give you anal prolapse if you keep biting. That offer to get Ubuntu, or any other flavor of Linux, up and running is still good. I’ve found the stability is second-to-none. (I can literally go, and have gone, months without a reboot.) Further, anything one can do with Windows I can do in Linux, albeit differently. And that’s part of what makes Linux attractive: it’s as different as you want it to be.
Alan, thank you again for a great comment. As I believe you have figued out that alot of these folks missed, is that I really *like* the idea of linux. I actually bought a linux router just so i could have to customization and freedom so many folks rave about. I’m not looking for a windows clone, just had some relatively severe issues during installs and I know trying to do it as a dual boot with bitchy Vista is part of the problem as well. Issues can be overcome, but I was looking to play a bit with some extra drive space, not replace my primary OS… at least not yet.
However, as I stated in an earlier reply, in the future I’ll be upgrading my file server and torrent handling… and I’ll be more than willing to take you up on that offer. I’ll be in touch!
And thanks again for *getting it*.
Wow, way to fail with the nVidia drivers. If you had done your research instead of immediately jumping over to nVidia’s website, you would have found that Ubuntu will install nVidia drivers for you without the use of the command line, either through Synaptic or Aptitude. And the drivers hosted in the Ubuntu repositories are pretty much guaranteed to be stable, unlike the releases on nVidia’s website.
And please don’t gripe about the command line interface. The command line is sticking around in Linux because you can’t always depend on a GUI to do everything you want, like opening a program in a safe mode after it crashed with a faulty configuration. In Windows and Mac, unless the developer includes a secondary executable for running the program in a safe mode, you have to go back and manually delete configurations, otherwise the program will continue to fail on startup.
In addition, for many veteran users a command line will perform tasks much more quickly than a series of pointing and clicking, and you have the safety and security of knowing exactly what a program is doing. Windows has actually crippled DOS in recent years, which opens up all GUI-reliant programs to all kinds of malicious software nightmares. How do you know if a program is safe when you can’t even monitor what it’s doing in the background?
I don’t think Linux is ever destined to fall into the hands of users that don’t even know what a mouse is, and that’s a very comforting thought. Let Apple handle those chuckleheads. I’d rather prefer that whatever operating system I use is part of a community where users know how to read and don’t get discouraged easily by minor bugs and hitches.
If you don’t have the capacity for patience and perseverance, then you can’t become a member of the Linux club. Whining and complaining about it on a publicly published page doesn’t make us any happier to help you, especially when you imply in the title that it’s Linux’s fault.
Jackie,
Congratulations for being the 1 millionth ass to miss the entire point of the article and say, in essence, “If you can’t do it the way I like to do it, you aren’t welcome in our club.” It’s childish and stupid. I’ve replied to every one of what would laughably be called one of your “points” dozens of times before so I won’t waste time again here. The only thing I’ll directly say is this: I want Linux out of the basements and into the mainstream to give MS a *real* run for it’s money, unlike every single person who makes these sort of comments who seems to want to keep it a secret and MS in power as a monopoly.
Having reached our one millionth l-tard, I won’t be approving any more of these types of comments. They generally show a complete failure to understand the written language. If you want to be constructive, fine, no problem. But I’ve got too much going on to waste time on fanbois.
Well, the issues you’ve had aren’t entirely linux’s fault. I’ve had A LOT of trouble with ATI drivers on my laptop, in fact that’s more-less the only thing that fails on it. A range of versions of these driver wouldn’t work with my graphics card AT ALL!! These drivers are notoriously buggy. The problem is that ATI sucks at writing their drivers. They can’t do the job right, and have been asked by the community to release the source code for them so that anyone can work on them, and improve them. They won’t release it because it would reveal “trade secrets”. That puts me in a very bad position.
Similar things happen with other hardware too. Companies won’t bother writing linux drivers because it, in their opinion is used by a handfull of computer hobbyists, so it’s not worth the trouble. More problems arise when they don’t release specifications either, so i assume writing drivers for such hardware involves a lot of reverse engineering, which is bothersome and slow.
I understand linux has come a long way with hardware support in the last couple of years (and i don’t have a piece of hardware i couldn’t get linux to work with) but there is more ways to go. Installing and configuring these drivers is often complicated too, so that does, in my opinion need improvement as well.
On the other hand, i currently have an old digital camera and tv card that aren’t supported under windows vista, but they work in linux, and i’ve learned a lot about the way drivers work in linux while installing them, and the way they work is pretty cool(you can detach and attach drivers in runtime, no restarting, no fuss). Also the idea of installing an os, together with all the needed drivers is great, after you install it everything should just work right away.
Shwick,
Yeah, I’ve got a webcam and an old Ati tuner card here that are not supported by Vista, either and I remember the utter cluster-fuck that was Vista’s driver issues at launch. I was surprised to learn about how untrusted the nVidia drivers are for Linux. it’s sort of built in to my admittedly windows mindset to go and download the latest drivers for hardware to avoid issues. it’s a mistake I won’t make next time. Do you, or any of our other commenters, know of a good location or community for stable Linux drivers?
And thanks again, Shwick!
Just here to make a few random comments:
As was said, if you’re just beginning Linux, you should probably stick with the packages in your repository, and not download packages elsewhere. Chances are very great that if it is in that list, that it will work well.
I think you are missing some of what the command line is. I agree on some points. If i am working in the command line, and i want to copy a file, i just type “cp file folder/file”. If i’m working in the GUI, i’ll just click and drag a file somewhere. Either works just as well as the other. Where the command line excels over the GUI is more advanced operations. Because of this, the average person using linux would never use the command line for more than copying and pasting commands given by help. My point is there, the command line is a very powerful tool, but is not superior to the GUI for many things, just for non-basic things.
I always wonder how there are so many people that blindly follow Linux and bash anyone who dares insult it! Its hard to decide which I dislike more, Apple Cultists, or Linux elitists.
As a side note, “Linux FAIL” is kind of a harsh title for this scenario. Yes, it didn’t work on your computer, but I don’t see that happen often, and it would be fair for you to actually try using a few distros. Like an earlier poster, I suggest virtual machines.
A major plus for me for Linux besides the power/freedom it gives me, is that I can set it up exactly how I want it, and eons later it will be running the same as when I just installed it. It doesn’t degrade over time like XP does for me, unless I do something stupid.
Dedtr,
You bring a some really good points. When it comes to the driver issue, consider it old Windows habits. When I install windows,I never accept the driver it loads, you go and get the driver from the manufacturer. This isn’t a mistake the next time I play with Linux, but i still find it odd. I’m quite happy to leanr that Linux has good drivers already bundled, but it does concern me that upgrading those drivers might be an issue or more complex than just downloading the package and double clicking it. I had *hoped* we’d moved beyond that. However, I will never dispute that there is a place for a command line. I know too many IS guys to not know the value of the command line, especially for deeper issues and server maintenance.
I find the comment about thee Apply/Linux comparison strangely funny. I had never really thought of anyone other than Apple users showing this kind of maddening love for their OS, and conversely visceral hared for any others. Very funny and kind of sad. I stopped caring what OS others use long ago. I do understand the appeal of Linux, which is why I wanted to try it and why I support it, even though i don’t currently use it.
And yes, the title was a bit over the top, but that’s kind of the point, really. Its a headline. It’s there to get attention, and it did fail here. But I take your point as intended.
Thanks for the comments!
First off, I have to say that I’m really impressed with the way you’ve handled all the negativity. I was afraid that by the time I read everything, this would just be a flame war, but you didn’t let them drag you down to quite that level.
I use Windows Vista on my laptop at school and home, Windows XP for gaming on my desktop, and I carry a USB-Bootable installation of Backtrack 3 for the times I want to mess with computers and learn more Linux. The Live CDs are a great thing because, as far as I know, you CAN’T screw them up. But if you’re looking for a permanent installation, I don’t really have any advice. I have an Ubuntu installation on my Vista Laptop, but for all it’s bells and whistles, I like the BackTrack environment better. I haven’t used Ubuntu in months.
I use the command line a lot because that’s what the password crackers and such want. I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but give the CLI another go sometime. Don’t rely on it. I don’t think you should HAVE to rely on, but sometimes it happens. After a bit, it’s a lot of fun.
I don’t have to upgrade stuff since it works out of the box for me, so I’m not familiar with the process. I will say that I’ve been driven to the breaking point just trying to install something because I feel that installs should just be a double-click and when they’re not, I have to get tech-support.
Good luck, though! I look forward to reading about your eventual second try.
James,
Thanks! yeah, some of the folk here have been pretty ugly. I just spammed away another of them who was trying to imply I only used IE :::shudder:::… not even if I was high on horse tranquilizers, lol.
I use Vista on the two machines here and XP for the file server. I simply don’t have crashes on any of them and am pretty pleased with the stability. I have tinkered with the Live CDs and I think they’re a great idea and it’s the only success I had with a couple of the other distros I tried briefly. After some of the more helpful comments here I’m looking forward to trying it again, but in a more dedicated setting rather than on a secondary partition as a dual boot; not yet. I’m certainly with you on the installs! LOL
When I do, I think I’ll focus on Ubuntu, based on most of the comments here, even the negative ones. I look forward to turning to you helpful folks should have any issues!
Thanks for stopping by!
Bleys, thank you! You know, based on the last few replies, I’m really starting to see that “awesome linux community” that I kept hearing about! This is excellent advice and not something I would have been thinking of. I ran into several problems with X-server during the driver installation process and couldn’t find anything useful online.
See, now I’m starting to wish i had some dummy equipment around so i could build a little play pc to toy around with.
Thanks a ton, and thanks for stopping by!
I had this exact same problem a few years back. As it would turn out the culprit was the crappy BIOS on my eVga 7800gt. This card worked just fine under windows (but only with certain driver versions), but linux could never start x-server. I finally tested a friends video card and isolated the problem to that. Evga corporation would not give me a new BIOS image, they said “flashing the video bios is not supported”. I finally got frustrated and downloaded an unknown, 3rd party BIOS from Taiwan for my specific card and flashed it (It was one of the most nerve-wracking things I have ever done). But, darned if that didn’t get me a kick-ass desktop running with gnome and beryl (now better known as compiz), this started me on my total love affair with linux…. When I would boot back into windows I discovered I could run all versions of nvidia drivers!!!! So, in a way, I have linux to thank for bringing this to my attention…. Don’t give up too soon!
Sure thing! Your problem brought back some painful memories for me, and if I can save anyone that pain, then it’s worth it.
I think I remember actually getting to the desktop by using the generic vesa driver, but that was very limited and slow (besides I was really wanting to do was play around with the cube-style desktop and effects). It did however get the machine online and into a state where I could cruise the web and research more and play around and learn (and boy did I learn).
The different distros are all based on the same basic kernel sources. Different distros will use the same kernel driver modules (nv, nvidia or vesa). The various window managers (gnome, kde, xfce, etc) run on top of the same basic x-windows server (X11). I honestly don’t think trying distro after distro will do anything but frustrate you even more. You can play with different driver modules by specifying them in /etc/X11/xorg.conf. Look for the driver= line in the Device section of this file. This is a good time to learn to use some basic commands like cp to copy files and make backups for editing with nano or vi. I believe your problem to be far outside the norm, most users will never experience what you are going through. To solve this, you will be forced to learn (worked for me).
The best advice I can give you is to get yourself registered in some good discussion groups within the linux community, sticking your neck out on the interweb is bound to bring you a lot of flames and bad information!
Regards
This is all good stuff, Bleys! And you know, despite all the screaming crazies it brought me, ‘sticking my neck out” also brought me a great deal of excellent and helpful information. You can be sure when the time comes that I will be referencing this thread, and all of you that have been so helpful, specifically to avoid any further issues like the first one’s I had.
I’m looking forward to giving this another go when the opportunity presents itself! Thanks again! You just keep feeding me more and more of what I needed.
Using a separate partition for the home folder takes away most of the pain of upgrading to new ubuntu releases.
I switched to linux because I was having issues with windows that kept recurring after reinstalling (I didn’t actually have a real windows cd, I just had the stupid laptop recovery disks). Since you never really know what’s going on in windows, I had no way to troubleshoot the problem (and I spent a lot of time trying), and I eventually gave up and switched.
Thanks for the info, Tree. Unfortunately, I not in a position to actually try it yet, or to really know the “lay of the land” for folders/directories under a linux release so that I’m 100% understanding what you’re asking. You can bet that it’ll be looked into when the time comes, though.
Those “Recovery Disks” are so useless they’re almost offensive. When i used to do a lot of system construction and troubleshooting, I would often tell anyone stuck with those old Dells, Compaqs or HPs that, in order to get their system on to more stable footing, it’s best to yank every bit of that extra shit and have them buy a real version of the OS they want. It’s much easier to work through driver and compatibility issues with those older eMachine and system-on-a-motherboard type PCs than it is to remove the crap once it’s on there. Often times those Recovery Disks create all sorts of wasted space through partitioning, too, and install tons of special hidden features. It’s all rubbish. With the price of OSes being what it is, I have no problem understanding why you went with an Alternative after all those problems.
Thanks for stopping by!
You are a moron plain and simple. Don’t ever install linux again. Stay on Windows like a noobish drone.
Experienced. Ok! I have no interest in belonging to any group that includes the completely oblivious and ignorant such as yourself. Bon Voyage!
There’s two issues here. Linazis, who really annoy me, and the fact that in 2009 any OS should run stably from installation.
I have tried 9 Linux installation disks on 3 machines and none run stably. Am I computer noob? Well, I used to write hacks for Amiga libraries so I guess not. Linux does not run out of the box and all other OSs do. If you have to edit files just to get a system to run more than 8 minutes you are talking about a useless operating system. Read on.
Let’s get to Linazi’s. These guys (there are no women) seem to be autistic or stuck in a Piagetian stage of learning comparable to a 3 year old. They don’t seem to understand that people have a different world view from them. Some people really don’t give a fuck about the internal workings of Linux, they just want to do what they can with any other OS, run applications. That thought doesn’t occur to a Linazi. Linux – it just doesn’t work, unless you become a slave to it.
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Dave,
Yes, sir. Thank you. That is, a lot more succinctly than I stated it, exactly what I was trying to say. I stand by what I’ve said a dozen times or more: I love the idea of Linux, and of Windows having some real competition. I love the open source aspect of it all. I would happily support it… if the damn thing just worked. Heck, I had far fewer problems installing WinME and that OS sucked.
Thanks, again, Dave. Just be warned, soon you’ll have people telling you to “Please, never use Linux again” and that “they don’t need you,” and all sorts of sundry “We’re better than you” comments.
I’ll just go play Dragon Age on my Win7 PC which hasn’t crashed one since install and runs essentially every app I throw at it.
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I have been using Linux since 2005, and have had very little problems with it, running on varying boxes, from old Pentium III’s, to triple-booting Pentium 4′s and new-built AMD 64s. If you want a Linux distribution that can install drivers for nearly all hardware, and has been doing so since 2008, try Linux Mint. I use it and it works well, even for homework. I have never turned back, and don’t plan on using Windows, unless forced to. I use Linux as it comes, and if I don’t like some aspect, I change it, mostly using graphical interfaces. I only use the command line for fast file management (can be done with mouse), updating (can be graphical as well), and when I’m bored. It works. you can even install it inside Windows.
To the OP:
Never used a Windows command line? Good lord, so you never used msconfig from run? %temp%? regedit? How on earth do you make your system run at a decent speed?
IE: msconfig to bring up a window where you can disable the useless startup programs that slow the boot up, or to disable processes you don’t want.
%temp% to make it easy to delete all the useless temp files you accumulate on your system.
regedit to alter settings so you can shutdown or startup Windows quicker by altering a couple of settings?
Now if I can do these things with a little searching on the net, then it shouldn’t be too hard to use something as easy as Linux surely?
Sure, you’ll come across something that really infuriates you, but it won’t be often, and once you get the hang of things then you’ll be happy you switched.
For example I use the Ruby programming language, and for some reason I tend to program on Linux better than Windows.
Installing gems is so easy under Linux, its one of the reasons its my main development system.
So I would say leave your Windows centric views behind, and look upon Linux as something you actually need to sit down and learn. You may just find yourself becoming a convert like all those kids ‘in the know’.